Curse

Daesu · Mar 22, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[build prof=me/n dom=12 soul=13 curse=7][visions of regret][empathy][cry of frustration][power lock][signet of distraction][signet of lost souls][/build]

Bah..I wouldn't bother filling your N/Me skill bar with interrupts. Your target should be dead so quickly that you dont need to disable particular spells.

You also dont even need to be a mesmer. At curse 14, my [[insidious [email protected]] lasts a second longer than your empathy and although it is 3 damage less, mine is a life steal and it doesn't take 2 seconds to cast.

I would also take another hex/condition like barbs or weaken armor than chaos storm.

Just bring discord on that necro over VoR and replace one of your MM's elite with JB. CoF works well enough at 0 dom.

Super Igor · Mar 23, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Bah..I wouldn't bother filling your N/Me skill bar with interrupts. Your target should be dead so quickly that you dont need to disable particular spells.

You also dont even need to be a mesmer. At curse 14, my [[insidious [email protected]] lasts a second longer than your empathy and although it is 3 damage less, mine is a life steal and it doesn't take 2 seconds to cast.

I would also take another hex/condition like barbs or weaken armor than chaos storm.

Just bring discord on that necro over VoR and replace one of your MM's elite with JB. CoF works well enough at 0 dom.

Nobody gives shit about IP's life steal you dont die in pve or that it lasts longer.

daze didn't want 6 Discords and [visions of regret] works much better than [spiteful spirit] with Discord.

Also, lol @ JB with Discordway.

Daesu · Mar 23, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Nobody gives shit about IP's life steal you dont die in pve or that it lasts longer.

daze didn't want 6 Discords and [visions of regret] works much better than [spiteful spirit] with Discord.

Also, lol @ JB with Discordway.

VoR is just meh on a necro primary with a 2s cast and a long recharge. Using discord on the curse necro would give better overall damage than VoR at only level 12. You already have more than enough hexes in the team, so you dont need VoR to setup discord.

At least JB grants your minions a second life and makes your meat wall alot more effective than just low level bone minions.

Super Igor · Mar 23, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

VoR is just meh on a necro primary with a 2s cast and a long recharge. Using discord on the curse necro would give better overall damage than VoR at only level 12. You already have more than enough hexes in the team, so you dont need VoR to setup discord.

I dont give shit, I'm making a suggestion for daze. VoR works much better with Discord than SS and my necro VoR is better than daze's.

Also, it's not that bad and the recharge isn't long.

Quote:

At least JB grants your minions a second life and makes your meat wall alot more effective than just low level bone minions.

Why would you want to spec heavily into death magic and not take Discord? o___O

sbb tbh

byteme! · Mar 23, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Nobody gives shit about IP's life steal you dont die in pve or that it lasts longer.

daze didn't want 6 Discords and [visions of regret] works much better than [spiteful spirit] with Discord.

Also, lol @ JB with Discordway.

Against my better judgement I actually agree with Super Igor on this. Must be a blue moon somewhere or someone has a flying pig.

Also Jagged Bones is meh.....

Daesu · Mar 23, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I dont give shit, I'm making a suggestion for daze. VoR works much better with Discord than SS and my necro VoR is better than daze's.

Also, it's not that bad and the recharge isn't long.

Why bring VoR when you can bring Discord? The damage from VoR is much lower than Discord. Lower damage, longer cast and longer recharge, why do you even bother with VoR?

Quote:

Why would you want to spec heavily into death magic and not take Discord? o___O

sbb tbh

That is because you already have 4 discords in the team. So it is a matter of taking JB versus VoR, I would choose JB, especially for a death magic necro.

Super Igor · Mar 23, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Why bring VoR when you can bring Discord? The damage from VoR is much lower than Discord.

daze thinks four Discords is more than enough so he brings VoR and Divert. VoR is better than SS with Discord.

Quote:

That is because you already have 4 discords in the team. So it is a matter of taking JB versus VoR, I would choose JB, especially for a death magic necro.

why do you want to lose on utility and damage to take a useless spell? lol

sbb

Daesu · Mar 23, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

daze thinks four Discords is more than enough so he brings VoR and Divert. VoR is better than SS with Discord.

why do you want to lose on utility and damage to take a useless spell? lol

sbb

Doesn't matter, VoR is a waste no matter how you put it. If you want a damage skill, you should just use discord.

A main weakness for the discord build is the weak meat wall made up of low level minions which can be easily destroyed through AoE attacks. At least JB plugs up a weakness, replacing a discord with VoR just makes it worse! You already have 4 discord in the team, which is more than enough.

lol at VoR as a damage spell in a discord team when you can easily just use discord. How is a lower damage, longer recharge, longer casting spell better?

byteme! · Mar 23, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Doesn't matter, VoR is a waste no matter how you put it. If you want a damage skill, you should just use discord.

A main weakness for the discord build is the weak meat wall made up of low level minions which can be easily destroyed through AoE attacks. At least JB plugs up a weakness, replacing a discord with VoR just makes it worse! You already have 4 discord in the team, which is more than enough.

lol at VoR as a damage spell in a discord team when you can easily just use discord. How is a lower damage, longer recharge, longer casting spell better?

Did you forget or are you deliberately leaving out the fact VoR has an AoE effect?

Daesu · Mar 23, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Did you forget or are you deliberately leaving out the fact VoR has an AoE effect?

The AoE effect is only adjacent (smallest shoulder-to-shoulder) range and is not guaranteed that heroes would only target it when adjacent monsters are around which the dumb AI frequently dont care.

Besides, with the longer cast and longer recharge, its damage at level 12, is no where near what discord can dish out in the same amount of time.

Replacing Discord with VoR in a discord team, who has already enough hexes, is just lol.

byteme! · Mar 24, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The AoE effect is only adjacent (smallest shoulder-to-shoulder) range and is not guaranteed that heroes would only target it when adjacent monsters are around which the dumb AI frequently dont care.

Besides, with the longer cast and longer recharge, its damage at level 12, is no where near what discord can dish out in the same amount of time.

Replacing Discord with VoR in a discord team, who has already enough hexes, is just lol.

Well I can sit here and write up an essay but "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" so I'll just move right on along and let you and Igor finish this thread off. You 2 are like bum buddies in this forum, always trying to outdo each other.

Daesu · Mar 24, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Well I can sit here and write up an essay but "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" so I'll just move right on along and let you and Igor finish this thread off. You 2 are like bum buddies in this forum, always trying to outdo each other.

I can sit here and argue that Discord at level 14 death magic can dish out more damage than VoR at level 12. But I have thought this would be obvious.

[email protected] is 75 damage per cast so it depends on how spammy the target is. 20s recharge, 2s cast and lasts for only 10s.

[email protected] is 105 damage per cast. 2s recharge, 1s cast, and is one of the most spammable skills in the game.

You do the math. The only time where I see that VoR may perform better is lots of monsters adjacent, stepping on one another, and skill spamming themselves to death within 10s.

If you want damage in a discord team, then discord should be your skill of choice. Having a stronger minion wall is not damage and is a different issue. But if you dont care about that, you can still bring 5 discord necros and 1 divert hexes, no big deal.

byteme! · Mar 24, 2009, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

lots of stuff...

Hey I was referring to the original argument up above of how VoR is better then SS in said setup. Don't drag me into this. I don't care about your math and all the other stuff. It has nothing to do with what I was replying to nor do I even care. Take it up with Igor.

I brought up VoR's AoE because I thought it'd be fair to bring up some pros because all you had were cons about the skill. That is all!

/end

Daesu · Mar 24, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

I brought up VoR's AoE because I thought it'd be fair to bring up some pros because all you had were cons about the skill. That is all!

It is not whether VoR is a good skill or not, you have to know when best to use it. VoR is better suited for a mesmer hero than replacing Discord in a discord team that already has enough hexes and conditions lined up. Likewise, Discord is a good skill but there are just some situations where it is not the best choice either.

daze · Mar 25, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

You 2 are like bum buddies in this forum, always trying to outdo each other.

I lol'ed

The bottom line is Discordway is a team build that is versatile enough to play with and mold to your style or preference. I could care less what Daseu prefers.. Actually, on second thought i probably could not care any less. It works and it works well. Its fun for a bit extra AoE damage. Yes it works for Adjacent enemies, luckily that is about the same distance that casters like to stand from each other.

I look at it this way, if i can clear FoW in Hard Mode with no cons in under 2 hours with the setup, then Daseu can inflate his "knowledge" of what is good and what is bad all he wants. Its still just hot air.

Bring VoR to urgoz one of these days then say that it is not beneficial to a discord team. But Urgoz is kind of a different monster just because I would never run 9 heroes with discord in it. 6 maybe, but 4-5 is optimal.

Daesu · Mar 25, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

...

I actually I couldn't care less whether you bother to listen to me either, since I dont expect you come up with any good arguments besides your personal preference when it comes to build choices.

brakner · Mar 25, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

This is the one I started using on my Nec.

Two question for you guys, think its worth changing the Curse/MM with minions from Curse to Channeling for Splinter, since I am mostly a Curse Necro myself?

Is it worth me taking Necrosis as my ghetto discord to help out the damage on single target? ( level 8 so 84 damage )

[Spiteful Spirit][Mark of Pain][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Weaken Armor][Necrosis][ Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support ][Aegis]

This is a new Necro that only has one elite, so I am now working on skills and finishing the various campaigns for PvE skills also.

[build prof=N/Rt death=10+1+1 sou=8+1 res=12][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=8+1 curse=8+1 heal=6][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste][infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build] remove [Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste] to [Putrid Bile][Splinter Weapon]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 soul=8+1 prot=9 heal=5][Discord][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][death nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Shield of Absorption][Cure Hex][/build]

Daesu · Mar 25, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

This is the one I started using on my Nec.

Two question for you guys, think its worth changing the Curse/MM with minions from Curse to Channeling for Splinter, since I am mostly a Curse Necro myself?

Is it worth me taking Necrosis as my ghetto discord to help out the damage on single target? ( level 8 so 84 damage )

[Spiteful Spirit][Mark of Pain][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Weaken Armor][Necrosis][ Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support ][Aegis]

[build prof=N/Rt death=10+1+1 sou=8+1 res=12][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=8+1 curse=8+1 heal=6][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste][infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build] remove [Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste] to [Putrid Bile][Splinter Weapon]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 soul=8+1 prot=9 heal=5][Discord][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][death nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Shield of Absorption][Cure Hex][/build]

Even though animate shambling has a long 25s recharge, I dont like healers to carry it and perform the 3s cast whenever a corpse becomes available, instead of healing.

I wouldn't bother with Infuse Condition, Recovery is more useful. Also your curse necro would probably have fewer minions, if any, than your main MM.

Keep enfeebling blood, and you dont really need Splinter if you bring all casters.

Xenomortis · Mar 25, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Hmm... havn't actually looked at my builds properly in a while.

For Sabway, as my main is a necro and only my necro has gone to the efforts of completing this setup:

[Xenomortis SS bar;OANDY8x/Q5BCN7B2BlB3gVVWCA] - my bar

Livia
[N/Rt Healer;OAhiYwh8YtrqTOpJ1ecOMvYA]

Master of Whispers
[MB;OANEUstt82UFOqLV0AeoqWPQjA]

As my char is a necro, the third slot is open to whatever hero I think best (Dunkoro or Koss usually). If I were to run sabway on a different char, I'd bring Olias with my SS setup with Necrosis replaced for something else (probably a res).

Discord - again, only for my necro main:

Me:
[Discord primer;OAdTY2j6VaBymMmcXkNwOwSYPAA]

Livia
[Discord + Rt heal;OAhkUwG4RFmTMrq+Jo2TOp548iB]

Whispers
[Discord + MB + Prot;OANDUspPOxsqwRFNgHqHzEZC]
or, if minions aren't a good idea:
[Discord + Prot;OANEUrpd86EzqqrkN90veMTQjA]

Olias
[Discord + Curses + Heal;OAhkUsG6BGaTMTaO5CE2B2QV9iB]
or
[Discord + Curses + Minion;OAhkUwG6BGKUMjC4RVggdAbQV1FD] - looking at that, that's a terrible minion choice and fairly pointless. I seldom run it anyway.

Because I'm bored, I'm going to critique my own builds:

Human SS build:
Reckless Haste isn't optimal, as it gives only limited benefit in HM, but is still a solid choice.
It's an SS bar and therefore below par, but meh.

MB:
Shambling Horror is hardly a good choice, it's effect is replicated enough with Jagged Bones.
Consider replacing the prot with Dwayna's Sorrow

N/Rt
Strong build, Xinrae's is comparable to WoR.
Consider Death Pact Signet over FomF.

Discord:

Human:
Suffering is, well a weak choice. I can't think of a strong one off the top of my head, but Shadow of Fear might be stronger and cheaper for an AoE hex.
Mark of Pain may be considered a weak option here (despite its power). It is difficult to make full use of this hex in a Discord setup.

Healer:
Solid build, but might benefit from a weapon spell (warding or vengeful). Weaken Armour seems an odd choice and will at most, serve to fulfill the condition for Discord, for which it is redundant.

MB:
Again, Shambling horror is weak, but this time may serve to lengthen the life of your minion wall should it be destroyed before its purpose is served.
Consider Dwayna's Sorrow instead of prots, although I do like prots.

Curses:
The heal options feel like needless filler, but may work. Suffering again, is wasteful. Defile Flesh shouldn't really be needed but may help on some very persistent monk bosses. Consider skills such as Barbs and Mark of Pain on this hero.
The minion option is well... odd. Shambling Horror is a bad choice for such a thing.

I now feel really odd.

Super Igor · Mar 26, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Even though animate shambling has a long 25s recharge, I dont like healers to carry it and perform the 3s cast whenever a corpse becomes available, instead of healing.

I wouldn't bother with Infuse Condition, Recovery is more useful. Also your curse necro would probably have fewer minions, if any, than your main MM.

Keep enfeebling blood, and you dont really need Splinter if you bring all casters.

Shamblings aren't effective for you because you can't kill fast enough due to a bad build, ignorance or lack of skill...or all of that at once. You saying that Shamblings have 3 sec. cast evidences that, you should be running bloodstained on Shambling MM's to save time and prevent your Bone Minion MM stealing minions. sbb

Shambling are extremely effective for me because they make exploiting faster and more efficient.
One MM with Bone Minions simply won't have enough energy to cope with spamming 15 energy spell every 5 secs when that many corpses are coming in and won't exploit every single corpse before battle ends either. That will slow you down greatly. But you won't listen and start arguing. But I understand why, you dont know how a good Discordway performs because you never played it and are too ignorant to listen to better players!